Okay, so you know that when I look at from your point of view, I can agree with you, or at the very least see your point of view, but I do not agree that everyone who sees the Autobots as the good guys in this are buying in to jingoism, and I can a different point of view on the story line.
I haven't read all of the tie in material, but here is my devil's advocate position on this. You know I like things to be morally complicated, and I'm not arguing that Autobot choices haven't been iffy, I just don't view it clear cut as you do.
The Allspark - Megatron wanted to control it in order to create more warframes that would be used to wipe out the last of the Autobots (genocide) and then used for expansion and conquest (likely genocide on other worlds). Sending it to space prevents anyone from making new combatants. It doesn't doom noncombatants to death, unless I'm missing something. Also, don't the 'Cons have a pretty horrid track record in their treatment of neutrals? Or is that all fanfic? Didn't the 'Cons set out to commit genocide on their own planet, to purge it of "weak influences"? How is preventing that from taking place and preventing the creation of more warframes genocide?
Sideways and Demolisher - they appear to simply be sitting there in the film. Do we know that for sure? Okay, I don't have anything better than that. That part of the movie always drove me nuts as well. The only thing I can do is fix it in fanfic. The only argument I can make is that they do have thousands of years of being combatants, and considering what will take place in DotM, there is no reason to think the 'Cons will be up to anything good on the planet they are currently living on. It still bugs the hell out of me, though. That scene sucks.
but DOTM? The Autobots STOP the 'Cons from transporting their world through a space bridge, dooming yet another world to extinction (no way that Cybertron in Earth's orbit is not going to be an extinction level event - they are bringing it close enough to collect their slaves. Earth is toast). They didn't collaborate to destroy Cybertron. They stopped the 'Cons from genocidal destruction of yet another world. In the novelization, Cybertron clearly still exists in the end. It is not destroyed, and my head canon for the film is that what we are seeing is the space bridge closing, not Cybertron being destroyed. I cannot equate stopping the wholesale enslavement of 6 million beings and the destruction of their planet as "collaborating in the utter destruction of their planet." That does not compute for me.
I love the way you think about these things. I love that it isn't clear cut. I can see both ways. But, at least in my head canon, there is no way that the Autobots would destroy hatchlings.
However, arguments aside, I love your take on Starscream here, and Bay's treatment of him in the film is unforgivable.
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Date: 2011-06-30 04:17 pm (UTC)I haven't read all of the tie in material, but here is my devil's advocate position on this. You know I like things to be morally complicated, and I'm not arguing that Autobot choices haven't been iffy, I just don't view it clear cut as you do.
The Allspark - Megatron wanted to control it in order to create more warframes that would be used to wipe out the last of the Autobots (genocide) and then used for expansion and conquest (likely genocide on other worlds). Sending it to space prevents anyone from making new combatants. It doesn't doom noncombatants to death, unless I'm missing something. Also, don't the 'Cons have a pretty horrid track record in their treatment of neutrals? Or is that all fanfic? Didn't the 'Cons set out to commit genocide on their own planet, to purge it of "weak influences"? How is preventing that from taking place and preventing the creation of more warframes genocide?
Sideways and Demolisher - they appear to simply be sitting there in the film. Do we know that for sure? Okay, I don't have anything better than that. That part of the movie always drove me nuts as well. The only thing I can do is fix it in fanfic. The only argument I can make is that they do have thousands of years of being combatants, and considering what will take place in DotM, there is no reason to think the 'Cons will be up to anything good on the planet they are currently living on. It still bugs the hell out of me, though. That scene sucks.
but DOTM? The Autobots STOP the 'Cons from transporting their world through a space bridge, dooming yet another world to extinction (no way that Cybertron in Earth's orbit is not going to be an extinction level event - they are bringing it close enough to collect their slaves. Earth is toast). They didn't collaborate to destroy Cybertron. They stopped the 'Cons from genocidal destruction of yet another world. In the novelization, Cybertron clearly still exists in the end. It is not destroyed, and my head canon for the film is that what we are seeing is the space bridge closing, not Cybertron being destroyed. I cannot equate stopping the wholesale enslavement of 6 million beings and the destruction of their planet as "collaborating in the utter destruction of their planet." That does not compute for me.
I love the way you think about these things. I love that it isn't clear cut. I can see both ways. But, at least in my head canon, there is no way that the Autobots would destroy hatchlings.
However, arguments aside, I love your take on Starscream here, and Bay's treatment of him in the film is unforgivable.